Through the Eyes of the Cape Fear--Voices

Interview of Alva Porter
Transcript Number 029

This is Steven Heffner with the World War II Veterans' oral history preservation project at the G.V. Barbee Branch Library in Oak Island, North Carolina. Today is June 5, 2000. It is 7 minutes after 10 a.m. and I'm going to interview Alva Porter who is a veteran of World War II.

HEFFNER: What was your last rank, Ms. Porter.

PORTER: Staff sergeant.

HEFFNER: Staff sergeant Alva Porter. Okay. Now would you just answer a few preliminary questions, your complete name and address now Ms. Porter.

PORTER: 7402 East Oak Island Drive.

HEFFNER: In Oak Island, North Carolina?

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: 28465. What's your phone number?

PORTER: 278-6204.

HEFFNER: Area code 910. Where were you born, Ms. Porter?

PORTER: Ipswich, Massachusetts.

HEFFNER: And what was your maiden name?

PORTER: Brocklebank.

HEFFNER: And what was your address at the time you entered the service.

PORTER: One Wayne Avenue.

HEFFNER: What city?

PORTER: Ipswich.

HEFFNER: State.

PORTER: Massachusetts.

HEFFNER: And do you remember what you were doing or where you were on Pearl Harbor Day, December 7, 1941?

PORTER: Yep, I was sitting in a restaurant having a cup of coffee.

HEFFNER: Where.

PORTER: In Ipswich.

HEFFNER: Were you single or married at the time?

PORTER: Oh single.

HEFFNER: How old were you?

PORTER: Oh I was only 17, no 18 at the time.

HEFFNER: You living with your family?

PORTER: No, I was living alone.

HEFFNER: Had you finished high school yet?

PORTER: I couldn't. It was one of those things, in my day, you had to go to work.

HEFFNER: Were you working?

PORTER: Yes I was.

HEFFNER: What was your occupation?

PORTER: I was working for Sylvania Electric Company. I was an installation inspector.

HEFFNER: In Ipswich, Mass.

PORTER: Yeah.

HEFFNER: When you heard about World War II, the beginning of it, did you have an idea that you wanted to enlist at that time.

PORTER: Oh yes, but I was only 18.

HEFFNER: What was the problem?

PORTER: You couldn't go in until you were 19.

HEFFNER: Into what?

PORTER: Any service, any woman's service you could not get in before you were 19.

HEFFNER: And you wanted to enlist? You wanted to enlist?

PORTER: Oh yes. I had no brothers, I had no family to speak of, a couple of sisters married, but you know.

HEFFNER: So you waited until you were 19?

PORTER: No, I tried to, the first letter I sent was to the Marines, the first application. Didn't hear anything. I sent one to the Army. I didn't hear anything, Navy, Coast Guard, nothing. It went on for a whole year and all of a sudden, I'm up to '44 and I'm thinking this whole world is going by me and I'm getting nowhere.

HEFFNER: 1944, is that what you mean?

PORTER: No it was '43 when they kept turning me down.

HEFFNER: Why did they turn you down? Because of your age only?

PORTER: Well I finally figured it out. When I got to 20, I finally figured out I shouldn't tell the truth.

HEFFNER: About what?

PORTER: Well they give you a questionnaire and on the questionnaire, it says have you ever had a serious illness and unfortunately I was taught to tell the truth and I put down yes, TB. Well...

HEFFNER: When did you contract tuberculosis?

PORTER: Well that was it, I was just a tiny tot when I got it and I was well over it, but they never asked for an explanation. They merely said nothing. So I finally figured out if I was ever going to get into the service, I'm just going to have to shut up, you know and not tell the truth, so that's what I did.

HEFFNER: On your application, you did not say that you had tuberculosis?

PORTER: No I didn't.

HEFFNER: And which application was that.

PORTER: Oh the one for the Army.

HEFFNER: United States Army.

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: What was the name of the women's branch of the service of the United States Army?

PORTER: Well it was the WACs then.

HEFFNER: What does it stand for?

PORTER: Women's Army Corps. The first one was Women's Army Auxiliary Corps.

HEFFNER: It was changed eventually?

PORTER: They changed because they finally decided to let women _____, at first I had a girlfriend that went in and by in large, she had to wear anything she got. They had no uniform. But by the time I got in there, everything was well set.

HEFFNER: And when was that time? When was the actual enlistment date?

PORTER: I went, my date of enlistment was 26 September 1944.

HEFFNER: Less than a year before the war ended.

PORTER: I know.

HEFFNER: But it wasn't for lack of trying.

PORTER: It certainly wasn't.

HEFFNER: All right now, where did you enlist?

PORTER: Boston, Boston, Massachusetts.

HEFFNER: Was there a WAC recruiting office there, was it Army headquarters, what was it?

PORTER: Well it was a great big room where everyone that had put in an application met, I think it was the enlisted personnel and we all had to take physicals.

HEFFNER: How old were you by now.

PORTER: 20.

HEFFNER: 20 years old?

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: Unmarried?

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: Okay, so you went to the headquarters. Did they give you a physical?

PORTER: Yep. And when I got to the psychiatrist, they got into trouble because he got to that question again if I had a serious illness and I said yes. He says, it says no here. And I said, I know it. I said, look it, I'm as healthy as you are. There's no reason why I can't go in and I would like the chance. Well he said we'll have to see about that. He had me have an x-ray immediately.

HEFFNER: A chest x-ray?

PORTER: Yes. And you know, out of all those women that were there that day, I was the only one that didn't know whether she had passed the physical or not. They told me they had to measure the scar.

HEFFNER: The scar on your lung?

PORTER: Yes, but it was rather, it was degrading to have a physical because here we went into a room and we formed a circle and there was a doctor sitting there examining your chest and there were all these women and this guy was making you take your robe off and sit there, you know, in front of God and everybody with nothing on. And he turned and looked at me and said, look out the window, don't look at those women. It was the only way I got through that. It was most embarrassing.

HEFFNER: Was it just a one day affair? Did you go back home not knowing whether you had been accepted?

PORTER: That's right, I didn't know for a couple of weeks and finally they called me and said to come to Boston to be sworn in and that in itself was quite wonderful because I was the only one being sworn in that day.

HEFFNER: Same place as you had gone to the physical?

PORTER: No, this was an office.

HEFFNER: Office building in Boston?

PORTER: It was an office. I don't know if it was a great big building or not, but it was an office, had a bunch of Army workers there typing up a storm.

HEFFNER: Male or female? Civilian or military personnel?

PORTER: I was up on a platform with an officer and she gave me, you know she swore me in. You could have heard a pin drop in that place. The minute she started swearing me in, everybody stopped their work. It was so dramatic. One girl had tears running down her cheeks, it was just terrific, it really was. And after that, of course, I went.

HEFFNER: Went where?

PORTER: Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia.

HEFFNER: That's where you received your...

PORTER: Basic training.

HEFFNER: And what rank were you when you first enlisted?

PORTER: Oh private of course.

HEFFNER: And you had a group of women that were in your class, so to speak, of enlistees.

PORTER: Oh yes, it was all women.

HEFFNER: I understand that, but how many were in your particular...

PORTER: Company?

HEFFNER: ...Which is how many?

PORTER: I can't remember now (laughter).

HEFFNER: And your first stop was Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia.

PORTER: Well yeah it was. We went by train.

HEFFNER: From Boston?

PORTER: Yes. And went to Fort Oglethorpe. And when I graduated from there...

HEFFNER: How long did that take?

PORTER: About six weeks I think, 26 October to what, I don't know. Well anyway, oh I see, I went to Amarillo, Texas, 26 October to 18 December.

HEFFNER: A little less than two months. And what kind of training did you receive in Fort Oglethorpe?

PORTER: We learned to march.

HEFFNER: Regular military training?

PORTER: Oh yeah.

HEFFNER: Not clerical training, not nursing?

PORTER: Basic training.

HEFFNER: But no rifle or weapons?

PORTER: Just learning how to march. That was interesting too because you see a group marching and they look so beautiful and that's because when we were marching, somebody would say to me, do I look all right walking, and you'd look at them and you'd say, well did you know you bounce? No. And I swung my arms and didn't know it, so they stopped that. And then you gradually begin to look like a unit moving and of course every night we went out to the retreat at the end of the street around the flagpole and that was very beautiful too.

HEFFNER: What about uniforms?

PORTER: We got our uniforms.

HEFFNER: Basic uniforms with stockings?

PORTER: Sort of like wool, I don't know what material they were. I was never very interested in clothes, but I know one of them, they said to wear the worst one you had and let somebody look at it and since I'm long-waisted, I had a short-waisted jacket and it was very uncomfortable and I wore it out and the officer looked at it and said, no, it'll do.

HEFFNER: What about headwear, was it a cap?

PORTER: Yeah, when they first started, they had these hobby hats.

HEFFNER: What are they?

PORTER: They're the ones that look very military, almost like military police, you know. Then they got the overseas hat which was just a little one.

HEFFNER: So you got basic training at Oglethorpe, learned how to march. What about barracks life? Were you in the barracks with a bunch of people?

PORTER: Yeah, I was in the barracks. It was interesting.

HEFFNER: Like a Quonset hut type of arrangement?

PORTER: Well, there were always the goof-offs and there were always the good ones. There was something you wouldn't do ordinarily.

HEFFNER: Were you still a private when you left Fort Oglethorpe?

PORTER: Oh yeah, oh yeah. You didn't get new rank in basic training.

HEFFNER: What was the next stop?

PORTER: Oh let's see, I went somewhere, oh I was in the Air Corps. They sent me to Amarillo, Texas.

HEFFNER: Did you volunteer for that or was that the Army's idea?

PORTER: Well I volunteered for radio work because I worked for Sylvania Electric and I thought well why can't I put this electric knowledge to work in radios and of course, the radios were in the planes so I was put in the Air Corps. It was the Army Air Corps then so it was still Army.

HEFFNER: And the women had a branch of the Army Air Corps?

PORTER: Oh yeah.

HEFFNER: Was there an acronym for that too, like WAC for Women Army Corps.

PORTER: It was still WAC, it was all WAC. But anyway, I went there and typical of the Army, they give you two tests, one to see whether you're proficient in paperwork, one to see if you're proficient with tools and of course, I was proficient with tools so they put me in an office. And I said why can't I go and learn how to work on radio. Oh no, some other places come and learn that, so I got stuck in an office with 201 files.

HEFFNER: What's that?

PORTER: Personnel files of all the people on base.

HEFFNER: Personnel records of the troops. It was a clerical job.

PORTER: That was my job.

HEFFNER: Which you didn't want.

PORTER: No.

HEFFNER: How long did you stay in Amarillo, Texas?

PORTER: Well first, I went to the commanding officer and told her I absolutely hated the work I was doing, was there any way I could get out and she said, yeah, that she had had a girl go to training in San Antonio for PT instructing and the girl had flunked out.

HEFFNER: PT for physical training.

PORTER: Yeah, so she said I'll send you if you promise you won't flunk out. So for two weeks I went to San Antonio, Texas, in December of 1944 and took a course there and passed it.

HEFFNER: What was the course in?

PORTER: Well physical training for two solid weeks. You may believe me, after the first week, we couldn't walk. That was nice because we were so tired at night, we really couldn't go anywhere. So we'd lie in bed and somebody would either tell a story or somebody would quote a poem, it was very nice.

HEFFNER: Was this a base of men and women or just women?

PORTER: Women.

HEFFNER: How about the first one, was that men and women or just women?

PORTER: Just women. All during World War II, we were separated and that was good.

HEFFNER: No fraternization.

PORTER: No and that's the way it should be, it really should.

HEFFNER: So now you're in San Antonio and how long were you there, just two weeks?

PORTER: I was only there two weeks.

HEFFNER: Were you still a private?

PORTER: Oh yeah. In the States, there wasn't much rank.

HEFFNER: So now were you qualified to be a physical training instructor?

PORTER: Yes, they just give it to the WACs in the morning, when they get out of bed, to try to get them to move, to move a little bit.

HEFFNER: And you would be like the one leading the women in their exercises, sort of like aerobics, a little more involved though.

PORTER: Yeah. So anyhow they gave me also the job of mail clerk so I didn't have to go behind the desk anymore. I enjoyed that, but then there came a chance to go overseas. I wanted to go overseas so badly.

HEFFNER: What year are we talking about now? Are we still in '44?

PORTER: Still in '44, yes.

HEFFNER: But it must be the end of '44 because...

PORTER: Yeah it was.

HEFFNER: By that time...

PORTER: No, it was the beginning of '45. I beg your pardon.

HEFFNER: You have the date?

PORTER: Yeah.

HEFFNER: What was it?

PORTER: 11th of January, 1945. I came from San Antonio.

HEFFNER: From San Antonio to?

PORTER: Amarillo again and then 28 January 1945, I went to Des Moines, Iowa to get ready to go overseas.

HEFFNER: A WAC base?

PORTER: Yes, always a WAC base.

HEFFNER: Still a private.

PORTER: Oh yes.

HEFFNER: And your rating or your occupation was now physical training instructor.

PORTER: Right now, it was nothing, just going overseas. They'd find out what they wanted me to do when I got there.

HEFFNER: Did you volunteer to go overseas?

PORTER: Oh yes, indeed.

HEFFNER: Was it strictly voluntary for the women, you had to ask?

PORTER: Well not all the time, but most of them did. Most of us wanted overseas.

HEFFNER: And were you still attached at this time to the Air Corps or back in the WAC.

PORTER: I was still in the Air Corps. Well it was still WAC Air Corps.

HEFFNER: WAC Air Corps. And what's in Des Moines, a base?

PORTER: It was a base to get you ready to go overseas.

HEFFNER: Any special training that you got there?

PORTER: We learned how to climb coggle nets and little things like that, you know, get over the side of a ship.

HEFFNER: Just like the soldiers.

PORTER: Oh yeah.

HEFFNER: How long were you there?

PORTER: Oh just a few weeks and then we shipped out.

HEFFNER: Was that the only thing you did there?

PORTER: Yes, got ready to go overseas.

HEFFNER: They didn't tell you where you were going? They didn't tell you when you were going.

PORTER: No.

HEFFNER: They didn't tell you how you were going?

PORTER: No.

HEFFNER: Well, let's have the answers to those questions. When, where and how.

PORTER: Well, 9 April 1945, I went to Camp Shanks.

HEFFNER: Where's that?

PORTER: New York.

HEFFNER: What part of New York?

PORTER: I don't know. All I know is it was Camp Shanks. We shipped out from there overseas.

HEFFNER: By what?

PORTER: Ship.

HEFFNER: Boat.

PORTER: Ship.

HEFFNER: That left from where.

PORTER: From Camp Shanks we went to Le Havre.

HEFFNER: France?

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: Now this is some time now in April 1945, the war in Europe was about ending then.

PORTER: It ended three days before I landed.

HEFFNER: Before you landed?

PORTER: Yes. We were zigzagging across the ocean, taking nine days to get there and everyone was worried about the submarine.

HEFFNER: German submarine?

PORTER: Yeah, and they found out it was surrendering so no problem.

HEFFNER: You're still a private?

PORTER: Oh yeah.

HEFFNER: Attached to the Air Corps of the WAC unit headed for France, you arrived in France.

PORTER: When did I get there? 9/8.

HEFFNER: 1945?

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: The war in Europe was definitely over by then. How did you find out about V-day. How did you find out about the war being over, I believe it was right around that time?

PORTER: On the ship?

HEFFNER: During your crossing?

PORTER: It was the Il d'France.

HEFFNER: The Il d'France was the troop ship that you came across, big luxury liner.

PORTER: Yeah, I guess it was at one time.

HEFFNER: And was it just women on board or was it men too.

PORTER: Oh no, there were nurses, WACS on the deck and the men were below.

HEFFNER: A troop transport?

PORTER: It was horrible. Have you ever smelled fish at breakfast? Oh Lord.

HEFFNER: Did you get sick, sea sick in the crossing?

PORTER: Yes, that fish would make anyone sick and I remember I held out a canteen cup and he filled it with something and I said, is this coffee, tea or cocoa? The Englishman said, it's coffee.

HEFFNER: What's an Englishman doing on the ship?

PORTER: They were running it. That's why we had fish for breakfast.

HEFFNER: The British were running the Il D'France which was a French ship transporting American soldiers and WACs.

PORTER: Well you stop and figure. France had been under the domination of Germany so the only way to save the Il D'France was to ship her out.

HEFFNER: What happened when you got to the harbor? Did you stay there or were you transported someplace else?

PORTER: Well we landed in Scotland and took a train all the way down and then when we got to Le Havre, we were taken to a camp area up in the woods. I don't know the name of the woods.

HEFFNER: A tent area? Was that a regular Army camp, just a tented area.

PORTER: Oh yes.

HEFFNER: In an open field kind of a thing?

PORTER: It was in the woods. There were no open fields, there were just a bunch of tents set up in the woods.

HEFFNER: In France?

PORTER: In France, 490th ReinCorpsment Company.

HEFFNER: Which was that, was that your unit or the unit of the Army that was there already?

PORTER: It was there. They had just set this place up, just set it up. Evidently having the women come in and shipped down from Paris and everything was getting too much so this set up where the ship came in and in this way, the women were separated and sent where they were supposed to go.

HEFFNER: Again, was this tent camp just women or were there men there too?

PORTER: No men were ever with us. Of course, they snuck out and saw them, but you know as far as men being with us in World War II, no.

HEFFNER: And you said the unit was the 490th of what Army?

PORTER: The Army Army (laughter).

HEFFNER: Just WACs, 490th WACs overseas Europe.

PORTER: It was just called 490th ReinCorpsment Company.

HEFFNER: Now how long did you stay in this tent city arrangement?

PORTER: Well I joined it. I knew that if I didn't say something to try to stay there, they would send me to Paris and I'd get stuck in an office again, so I went to the commanding officer here and said I would like very much to stay and she was getting Cadre at the time.

HEFFNER: Cadre? What's that?

PORTER: Those are the people to help her group, her team, her company. All there was at the time was her, commanding officer and two officers and a first sergeant and a staff sergeant. That's all she had. So we joined, I joined and a couple of other girls joined and we lived in tents and when the girls came in, you know we showed them where to go, take care of them until it was time for them to leave.

HEFFNER: Leave to go where?

PORTER: Wherever they sent them.

HEFFNER: Where they were assigned. But you wanted to stay in this unit whose sole purpose was to take troops as they came overseas, women, and settle them down there and eventually ship them out.

PORTER: Yes.

HEFFNER: What rank were you at this time, still private?

PORTER: Well I was for a while.

HEFFNER: You don't remember?

PORTER: Oh sure. My goodness, Lieutenant, Captain Pace, all my good buddies, no here. Let's see, on the 18th of May, I joined this outfit. When did I join you? Oh, 9 May. On the 18th of May, I got to be a PFC.

HEFFNER: That was your first promotion in the Army?

PORTER: They took me out of the Air Corps because there was no war anymore and the planes were going home, taking people home so...

HEFFNER: Now you're back in the WAC Army again?

PORTER: So I'm back in the Army.

HEFFNER: And now you're a PFC.

PORTER: I'm a PFC and on the 18th of June, I became a Corporal.

HEFFNER: That was very fast promotion.

PORTER: It was an open, like I said the only ones there were their commanding officer and a couple of her helpers and they had the rank there, all they had to do was earn it.

HEFFNER: How did you earn it?

PORTER: So I earned it. On the 18th of June, I was a sergeant and the 8th of July, I was a staff sergeant.

HEFFNER: All these promotions in the last few months of your tour of duty and you stayed at the 490th the whole time.

PORTER: Yes. We moved a couple of times. Annabelle Pace had come up through the ranks. She had been a corporal and had been in the old WAAC. She had gone up to the rank of captain and she was quite a character. They decided to move us from Le Havre to Souci________, no Tres' ci La Belle first, because it was a chateau and they were going to bring officers over and they didn't want the officers to live in tents so we went to Souci_______, but I mean Tres' ci La Belle first, it was a beautiful castle with a moat around it and everything, but somehow I guess the people that owned it didn't like the idea of all this going on. So we had to move from Tres' ci La Belle to Souci________ which was just outside of Versailles and this too was a beautiful, beautiful castle you might as well say and we had a tent area there. All the tents were out back. We had latrines built, showers so the girls coming in and out would have what they needed until they went home. I think the most embarrassing situation for all of them was the latrines. They were the same as the men's, you know. Latrines back to back, they were the busiest at night that you ever could imagine. No woman would go in any longer than she had to in an open latrine during the day, but at night I don't think anybody slept. And it was very embarrassing because women are not used to that. And then of course we moved finally from Souci ________ back to Le Havre, but this time we were in Quonset huts and unfortunately there, I was taken off from. Captain Pace had gone and the Lieutenant that took her place decided I had too much rank to be fooling with the troops so she put me in the office typing discharges. I can't type and discharges are very very fussy.

HEFFNER: Discharges for the WACs or for the service men?

PORTER: No, the WACs. A lot of them wanted to stay overseas. They had found jobs and they really wanted to stay so I had to type their discharges. One little letter, you could not erase, absolutely not. I don't know how many times I did them over and over and over.

HEFFNER: Is that the universal form for discharge, the DD, DO something, the one that you have?

PORTER: I've got one here.

HEFFNER: Why don't you read, it's hard to read, but it looks like WDAGO form 53-55. Why don't you read us your discharge. Read what your discharge says.

PORTER: This is what I had to type in Lord help you if you made a mistake. Just had to do it over and over and over. When we put in to go to Japan or over to the South Pacific, but they wouldn't let us, they said we had enough.

HEFFNER: Oh you tried to transfer to the Pacific theater then?

PORTER: Oh yes, our company wanted to go there, boy.

HEFFNER: But they wouldn't let you?

PORTER: Nope.

HEFFNER: So when were you finally discharged or when did you leave Europe, let's start at the beginning.

PORTER: Well the thing is they wanted you in for a year, a month and 18 days, no 6 months, duration plus 6.

HEFFNER: That was your enlistment? When you enlisted, that was the tour of duty, the normal tour of duty for a WAC?

PORTER: It was everybody's.

HEFFNER: Everybody in the WACs.

PORTER: No, in the service too. You had duration plus six months.

HEFFNER: Duration of war plus six months. And the war in Europe ended in May of '45. That means you had to be discharged in October of '45.

PORTER: I didn't have to, that's when they wanted you, you know. I mean there were too many now, but my old troop was going to move to Germany and I figured I want to go home. I told them my father, he didn't have anybody to take care of him.

HEFFNER: Was that the truth?

PORTER: Well it was a wee bit of a lie, but the sister that had been looking out for him went to Vermont and just left my father sort of floating around so I went home.

HEFFNER: When was this?

PORTER: I went up to Brussels, Belgium and got a discharge.

HEFFNER: When, what was the date?

PORTER: Isn't it on there?

HEFFNER: Well you're going to tell us. I didn't have a chance to read it all.

PORTER: Well it wouldn't tell you there because it just tells you the date I left. The ETO was 2 December 1945, I came back to the United States. I landed here the 9th of December.

HEFFNER: Where? Was it in New York?

PORTER: Yep. Doggone it, I know.

HEFFNER: Was it a troop transport that brought you home?

PORTER: I was on S.S. Argentina, but it was a troop ship, yeah.

HEFFNER: That left from where?

PORTER: From Lehavre______.

HEFFNER: Same place that you had landed?

PORTER: Yeah.

HEFFNER: And was it again men and women?

PORTER: Oh yeah, yes indeed.

HEFFNER: Did the British run this ship too?

PORTER: No, this was America, it sure was.

HEFFNER: So there was no fishy smell for breakfast?

PORTER: No.

HEFFNER: Good American smells.

PORTER: Yep. The S.S. Argentina arrived in New York.

HEFFNER: The port of New York. You don't remember. Well where did you head when you got back to the States? What was the first stop after you disembarked?

PORTER: Well I got a discharge just like that. You stayed there until you got a discharge.

HEFFNER: And after the discharge, where did you go?

PORTER: Home.

HEFFNER: How?

PORTER: Train.

HEFFNER: Train to Boston?

PORTER: Yep and back to Ipswich.

HEFFNER: And back to Ipswich and that was the extent of your service?

PORTER: Yes. It wasn't very impressive, but it was different.

HEFFNER: Okay. Now while you were overseas in Europe, you didn't see any battles or the results of any battles?

PORTER: No, no.

HEFFNER: How bout the landscape indicating there had been battles?

PORTER: Oh Le Havre, the harbor in Le Havre. It had been bombed to pieces. And the sister ship to the Il d'France, they were building her when the Germans took over, they scuttled her and she was lying on her side wherever they keep them. I thought it was pretty remarkable to scuttle a big ship like that.

HEFFNER: Was that the biggest devastation that you saw when you were over in France or were there other signs that there had been battles there?

PORTER: Well Saint Lo was flat as a pancake.

HEFFNER: Signs of battle?

PORTER: Yes, because the young men could get vehicles and then take us around and show us things.

HEFFNER: Oh, so there was some fraternization after hours?

PORTER: Oh yeah, you could fraternize. It's just they didn't want them in camp.

HEFFNER: So did you fraternize?

PORTER: You could go down to Le Havre if you wanted to, you know, as long as you told someone where you were going. The troops knew, but I'm talking about the personnel who worked. You could go down to Le Havre and we could take trips in the vehicle.

HEFFNER: Did you?

PORTER: Oh yeah.

HEFFNER: Was there a USO there?

PORTER: No, not until we came back. When we came back, there wasn't a USO. There was a swimming pool that we had built for the French and we were allowed to go there.

HEFFNER: Where?

PORTER: Down in Le Havre and we enjoyed that.

HEFFNER: So most of your overseas service revolved around Le Havre with occasional trips to other places.

PORTER: We did quite a while in Suoze _______. One thing I was very annoyed at, the Red Cross was there in Compiegne and instead of taking care of the place themselves, they hired French girls to do it and they sold tickets to the guys coming in and shipping out, that was not right.

HEFFNER: Tickets to what?

PORTER: To go in the canteen and get coffee and donuts.

HEFFNER: That's supposed to be free, isn't it?

PORTER: (Laughter) Yes.

HEFFNER: Who was doing the selling?

PORTER: I told you, the French girls.

HEFFNER: Who was doing the buying?

PORTER: The GI's dammit, they wanted coffee and donuts, but the thing was, they never stayed long enough to finish their tickets you know, their little tickets that got punched. It was quite a racket. There were a few rackets over there.

HEFFNER: Did you have occasion to see any wounded servicemen while you were over there in France?

PORTER: Not wounded, no, Guys going home that had been wounded.

HEFFNER: The sea servicemen?

PORTER: There was one little paratrooper I felt so sorry for. He had been there I think longer than just about anybody there and they lost his records. And he was driving a truck waiting and waiting and waiting to go home and he certainly had enough points, but they wouldn't listen to him. He had joined in with a certain outfit. They knew how long that outfit had been there. I think it just wasn't right. And we used to count points when we would get the GI records and count points for them to see how many we could get home cause they wanted home and I thought that was great.

HEFFNER: Now your contact with the servicemen was just social?

PORTER: Yeah. We had to wear combat boots, tuck our pants in there and we wore the Yank jackets too. I liked them.

HEFFNER: Oh the Eisenhower jackets?

PORTER: Yeah, the ones that buttoned down so when you bent over, they didn't ride up.

HEFFNER: What about Army food? How did you take to that?

PORTER: Well it was okay until we got back the second time.

HEFFNER: The second time where?

PORTER: Back to Le Havre the second time. We had German PWs doing the cooking. It was all dehydrated stuff. It was horrible. You know, when you get a cup of coffee, the German automatically put 10 pounds of sugar in so that was horrible. But when I was in Suoaze_________ , they gave me the job of cleaning up the chateau. I had to get the chateau clean and I had a group of German PWs and I wasn't about to push any men. I know better than that, so I got one that spoke English and I said you tell these men that if they do the work I need done in the morning, in the afternoon, I would try to find something more in line with what they did at home. And it worked fine. In the morning, they would scrub the daylights out of the place and in the afternoon, I would give them jobs like repairing screens or painting if they painted. I got them to paint the infirmary, you know a lot of things, just by staying out of their face and allowing them to do their work.

HEFFNER: These were captured German soldiers right after World War II who were still considered prisoners of war.

PORTER: Well I tell you, like the kid said to me that could speak English, he said you Americans are stupid. I said, granted, but we enjoy it, you know and I said, what's bothering you and he said, well, do you think that if we had won the war, we would be treating you like this. I said no, that's why you lost it, stupid. They really thought we were out of this world.

HEFFNER: That was the only contact you had with German soldiers in World War II.

PORTER: Oh they were up in Le Havre again too you know.

HEFFNER: As prisoners?

PORTER: Oh yeah, but they did a lot of things like our bartender in the club was a German soldier.

HEFFNER: What club was that?

PORTER: Well our own little club.

HEFFNER: At your base?

PORTER: Yes, we had a little club.

HEFFNER: Was that for enlisted personnel and officers?

PORTER: Well the officers usually didn't mix with us.

HEFFNER: How many women were in your outfit when you were at the camp.

PORTER: My outfit?

HEFFNER: Yes.

PORTER: Oh I'd say about 20.

HEFFNER: Just 20?

PORTER: 20-25, we had a truck driver, I don't know what they did. I guess they worked up in the area.

HEFFNER: This was the 490?

PORTER: After they went up to Germany, they changed their name officially, but that was it the whole time they were in France.

HEFFNER: Did you gain or lose weight when you were in the service overseas?

PORTER: I gained. I came home nice and fat.

HEFFNER: What were you when you went in?

PORTER: I weighed 118.

HEFFNER: And when you came home?

PORTER: 138.

HEFFNER: Did you find any romance overseas?

PORTER: Oh there was a lot of it.

HEFFNER: We don't have to talk about it if you don't want.

PORTER: Just kids going through, you know.

HEFFNER: What would you say in your entire service experience was the worst thing that happened to you.

PORTER: Well frankly I think the worst thing were lesbians.

HEFFNER: Okay, were did you encounter that?

PORTER: Well I first noticed it in basic training when we were getting ready to leave, I saw these two women on a bed crying their hearts out, kissing each other and I thought, good heavens, you're not that close, are they sisters or something. And you know, a person that knew a little bit more about life than me I guess looked at me and said, stupid, they have been going steady. So then when I got out to Amarillo, we used to go out evenings, you know, but there were nights I wanted to stay home and we did have a little clubhouse, recreation and I was in there one night lying on the floor, listening to the radio and some blond girl came over and she said, what would you do if I kissed you. I said, I'd beat your head in and I got up and left and I never went back again. It was repulsive.

HEFFNER: Was that the only place you experienced it was when you were in Texas?

PORTER: Yeah because otherwise I was on my own, you know, I had my own room in my own tent with my own group. It was just repulsive, it really was.

HEFFNER: Did you keep in touch with any of your fellow WACs after the service.

PORTER: Oh yeah.

HEFFNER: Give me some names and addresses.

PORTER: Mickey Mahoney.

HEFFNER: Where was she from?

PORTER: New York, where else?

HEFFNER: New York, okay, and what was she to you, just a friend?

PORTER: Well she was in my company and we lived in the same tent area up in Le Havre when we first went over there and Mickey loved to eat (laughter). She loved to eat. She was always stocking things up to eat and we had an inspection one day and we had the area for the troops office, cigarette butts, and instead they inspected our quarters and while we weren't a mess, Mickey had all this food and they really raised holy hell about that. So that night, we moved the pot belly stove out and dug a hole, a deep deep hole and put Mickey's goodies down in the hole (laughter) and put the stove back over it. She was a doll. She really was.

HEFFNER: Did you keep in touch with her after the war?

PORTER: Oh yeah, she came to see me when we had the baby and she came to see me in New Jersey and she calls me now and then. Every now and then, I'll pick up the phone and she'll say, hey Brock, you know.

HEFFNER: After over 50 years, you still maintain your acquaintance with her?

PORTER: Yeah, she got married and had a son and after while she decided, her son got married and Mickey was always kind of bossy so I guess her son and her didn't get along so she went off to the ______ somewhere.

HEFFNER: Was that about the only friend you maintained after service? You've got some autographs on the back of your port of embarkation certification. One of them is Emily Isaacson who lived in Pensacola, Florida, do you remember her?

PORTER: Afraid not.

HEFFNER: PFC Emily Isaacson, she autographed the back of your embarkation certificate when you left France. Do you want to take a break. We're back live. Do you want to tell me who those ladies were who autographed your embarkation certificate on the back of it.

PORTER: I don't know.

HEFFNER: Okay you don't know the first one?

PORTER: The only one I know is Irene Jack.

HEFFNER: What happened to her?

PORTER: She went home I guess. I didn't keep in touch with her. I don't know where I met these people.

HEFFNER: That was your worst experience you told me, encountering those women. What about your best experience in the service.

PORTER: I don't know. There were some wonderful experiences over there, there really were.

HEFFNER: Were you disappointed that you didn't get to serve while the war was going on?

PORTER: Oh yeah because like Jack, I mean Jackia, she was in England when they were bombing and she was out helping, you know.

HEFFNER: How did she end up in the 490 unit.

PORTER: Same as me. She wanted to work outside instead of inside. Like I say, we had a few unmentionables. There were in company 2 and they used to try to keep the girls, the younger girls in with them and they'd have a prize and things like that to try to keep the girls from going off with fellows and I would fight like mad to get the girls to go where I wanted, it wasn't a healthy situation. Like Mickey. Mickey was too lazy and I'd say, well Mickey c'mon and go out with me tonight, oh no, I'm going to stay here. Mickey, come out with me tonight and I'd get her to come out. I just didn't want to stay there and she was such a sweet kid. She was really innocent, a nice girl. She could do anything. She could do your hair, she could make clothes. She was just very talented, very, very talented. She was a telephone operator for a long time. She learned how to upholster furniture. She was a fine person.

HEFFNER: You never did get the job that you wanted in electronics, did you?

PORTER: Where?

HEFFNER: Doing electrical work

PORTER: No. Typical, it was so typical, just like my husband had a man there who was an artist in his company and they had him driving a truck. Unreal, they just wasted talent. They have always wasted talent and they always will.

HEFFNER: When you were discharged and went back home, did you get a job right away?

PORTER: Oh, I could go back to the job I had.

HEFFNER: Did you?

PORTER: Yes and no. I went back, but I was upset because the girl that took my place never married. She had to take care of her mother and she had nothing else. She had that job and she had her mother and I figured, well, I've got him, I might as well stay out of work, so I did a little waitress work, but then I was pregnant anyways, so ol Goofy and I...

HEFFNER: Goofy is your husband?

PORTER: Yeah, I've known him since he was 12 years old.

HEFFNER: But you met him after your service?

PORTER: What?

HEFFNER: You met him after your tour of service?

PORTER: He asked me to marry him for 10 years and I finally figured I better. He was getting old and I was too.

HEFFNER: Did you get any medals or commendations that you remember.

PORTER: Oh you always get the good conduct for a year of not getting caught at things.

HEFFNER: So it's on your discharge papers I imagine.

PORTER: I think there was another one too. Oh yeah, good conduct medal World War II, victory medal in European, African, Middle-Eastern service medal - very impressive.

HEFFNER: Those are the awards you got in the service. Were you entitled to the GI Bill of Rights like the men?

PORTER: I didn't use it, no, I should have.

HEFFNER: But you could have. The WACs and the women in service were eligible for the GI bill.

PORTER: When I came home, they gave me $300.

HEFFNER: That was your mustering out pay?

PORTER: Yeah, no Massachusetts gave it to us.

HEFFNER: State. The Army gave you something too.

PORTER: Yeah, they gave us our pay.

HEFFNER: Which was what?

PORTER: I don't remember. My God, that was years ago, a thousand years ago. It should be on here. $300, yep, this payment $100, travel pay $15.55.

HEFFNER: That document, the discharge certificate, was that what you ended up typing when you were in the service.

PORTER: Yep.

HEFFNER: Exactly that?

PORTER: Yeah, horrible because like I say, one little mistake, one little mistake and you have to do the whole thing over.

HEFFNER: Did you have any contacts with the native population when you were over there, the French people?

PORTER: They didn't want anything to do with us.

HEFFNER: How so, we were the liberators.

PORTER: (Laughter) The French have never liked us, the French never will. When we were on a convoy going from Le Havre to Traci Le Belle, I've got bad kidneys and unfortunately one of our officers did too, so we pulled up at this barroom I guess you'd call it and she said you know they have got to have a latrine here. So she went in and spoke in her best French and asked if they had a lavatory, I don't know, and the guy points to the courtyard. So we get up in the courtyard and she said Brock, find it, there were doors. I opened the first door and there wasn't a darn thing in it. I opened the second door and there were chickens, the third door there were ducks. I went back and said, you know, there's nothing in there. So I opened the door wide and took a flashlight and there was a hole in the floor and two foot fence beside it and that was the latrine. So we stand there rolling up our pants. It wasn't exactly what we wanted. And then further down the road, we stopped at a farm house and asked him, he sent us ______ and they used to have latrines built over these beautiful little brooks. Their sanitation wasn't what you'd like. We were told never to pick up anything from the ground like an apple and eat it.

HEFFNER: Why.

PORTER: They used human manure to fertilize.

HEFFNER: So your experience with the French while stationed in France was not good.

PORTER: No. Well we weren't allowed to really do...

HEFFNER: Fraternization with the civilians.

PORTER: I mean, what would we have in common. We didn't speak French and I know the GI's socialized. When you see a girl walking along with a suit made of Army material with U.S. Army on the back of it, you know there's been fraternization. We had enough to do, let's put it that way. We had enough to do doing what we did. It was a wonderful experience, it really was.

HEFFNER: Would you ever go back?

PORTER: Oh, no. You can never go back to something.

HEFFNER: One last question. I don't think I got your exact date of birth. Do you mind telling us.

PORTER: 1 in January, 1923.

HEFFNER: January 1, 1923?

PORTER: Yep.

HEFFNER: Okay Ms. Porter, thank you very much, appreciate it.

PORTER: I'm sorry it wasn't more interesting.

HEFFNER: Oh it was very interesting.