Lack:     Good afternoon.  My name is Adina Lack.  I’m the archivist and special collections librarian and I’m interviewing today Dr. Arvid A. Anderson whom I’m very happy to have join us in the conference room of Randall Library. 

Today is March 5, 2003.

Lack:    Dr. Anderson, can you please start at the beginning.  Where were you born and where did you grow up?

Anderson:    Oh gosh, I was born in New York in a place called Hampstead out on Long Island and I was born October 27, 1930.  My mother was of German American extraction and my father was of Swedish extraction.  So they met in the big city of New York and this was the Depression, the beginning of the Depression.  So we lived various places in and around New York City, in Florida, Connecticut and Massachusetts with my mother.

Then they split up and I spent quite a bit of time in a place in eastern Pennsylvania in the county of Berks where I was raised by my grandparents on a small farm.  So upon completing high school I went off into the Air Force.  It was a period of time when actions going on in the Berlin area.  I think it was referred to as the Berlin airlift.  Quite a few people were joining up.  So I got into the Air Force then. 

I went and got in at the age of 17 and things progressed.  Pretty soon we had something going on in Korea called the Korean I guess police action it was referred to.  Then I reenlisted for three more years which brings it to a total of six.

Lack:    In the Air Force?

Anderson:    Yes.  So one day I just decided well this isn’t going anywhere (laughter) and something that occurred was the GI Bill, the Korean GI Bill was passed and with the passage of that I decided I was going to go to college and at that point in my life I was going to be a lawyer and save people who were innocent and that sort of stuff.

Well under the circumstances, I was discharged from Fort Worth, Texas, and some friends of mine talked about going to the University of Texas.  So I decided I’d go there and they told me that you could go to the University of Texas and tuition for out of state students was $75 a semester.  That was a lot less than going to Penn State where the tuition was $245 a semester.

Lack:    For out of state?

Anderson:    No, for in state.

Lack:    My goodness, Texas was a bargain.

Anderson:    I found out that I could be classified as a Texas citizen if I had a driver’s license, Texas driver’s license and you had utility payments which I had because I was married and lived off base and had done that.  So I remember walking across a very large room to see this particular administrator and he looks at my material and stamps me as a Texas resident and my tuition was $25 a semester.

Lack:    That’s incredible.

Anderson:    Yes, the whole thing was incredible.

Lack:    This was in the 1950’s?

Anderson:    Right, 1954.  So there I began.

Lack:    Today I wouldn’t be surprised if military personnel can have in state residency for their state, but I know tuition is a lot higher and it’s probably more red tape to get it.  Did you go to the university in what city?

Anderson:    This was in Austin.  So I started there and received a Bachelor’s and a Master’s and a Ph.D. from there.

Lack:    All from Austin?

Anderson:    Right, that’s very fortunate.

Lack:    That’s a great school.   What were your fields?

Anderson:    Well my fields were in business.  The specific major areas were in international and in marketing and also had statistics and economics of course.  So we completed that and my first full time teaching job was at a school that was then called Arlington State College which is now a part of the University of Texas.  When I first went there it was part of the Texas A&M system. 

Then I came back to work some more on my dissertation at Austin.  From there, we went to the University of Florida in Gainesville.  What seemed like a long time, but I eventually finished my dissertation and remained in Florida for a period of time.  From Florida I went as a visitor to the University of Nebraska in Lincoln, Nebraska.  Then from there, I went to East Carolina up in Greenville, North Carolina.   From there I came here.

While I was here I also was teaching stints so to speak in England.  I taught at the University of Leicester, it’s called De Montfort in Lester.  There is a University of Leicester, but De Montfort had a different name and things were being changed around there. 

Lack:    And Leicester is L-e-i-c-e-s-t-e-r.

Anderson:    You got it right. Cause when I first saw it I thought it was pronounced Leicaste. But no, when you are in England you find out spellings and pronunciations.

Lack:    While you were here, you took a leave?

Anderson:    Right, I was a visitor over there.  We had an exchange.

Lack:    A UNCW exchange?

Anderson:    Right, so that was a very unique experience and it was really terrific.

Lack:    Was that after Chancellor Leutze was here because he really supported the international programs?

Anderson:    Yes, this program actually, the whole thing was done by the Englishmen.  He had set it all up and so it was an exchange whereby we just…he came and lived in our house and drove our cars and taught my courses.  I did the same over there.

Lack:    Oh, I see.  This wasn’t a program where you brought students over, this was a faculty exchange.

Anderson:    This was the real McCoy.  Those were not American students in those classes.

Lack:    And you taught there for a semester or a year?

Anderson:    It was a semester.  They had a different program, but I understand it’s been changed.  They have terms, they have three terms.  So I taught in the first term.  It was a fascinating experience.

Lack:    How is that?

Anderson:    Well for one thing it was more international.  Their chancellor who was very international minded and he was also a expansionist.  He wanted to build a very large university there in the center of England and he was on his way.  When I say on his way, he was bringing smaller schools, smaller colleges under the wing of the De Montfort name.  He was encouraging of foreign programs and exchange programs. 

For example, I met individuals from Bulgaria and from South Africa, from China and I had students from France and also…the two large groups were from France and from the Netherlands.  I was very impressed with the Netherlands students because they spoke English without a trace of an accent.  I couldn’t figure this out.  I mean there was just no trace.  It was amazing.

But some of the French weren’t that fortunate.  They were having trouble.  I had some students from Switzerland and Germany, Malaysia.  So there was quite a gathering.  And of course in Leicester there were lots of Indians and people from Pakistan.  It was a very neat experience.  Of course when you’re in England, the big thing that hits you is the history.  Someone once pointed out to me as I’m coming down these steps, he said, “I want you to look over that wall.  The bottom rocks were placed there by the Romans,”

The bottom stones were placed there by the Romans.

Lack:    In ancient times.

Anderson:    Yes and you’re just, it’s just mind boggling.  It was a great experience.

Lack:    Were the students at the university level in England more formal than the students here?  I studied abroad and I remember for example being told that when we have guest speakers we should dress a little nice, not like college students in the U.S. who just wear whatever.  Did you pick up on that?

Anderson:    No, I thought they were like students.  I thought there would be some difference.  There were some things that stood out.  For example, I have a tendency to talk about the use of examples.  I’m going to be talking about marketing, business and management in retailing whatever and financial matters and things that are going on in the market today.

In an American classroom, one of the things I could always refer to very quickly and get identification on would be automobiles.  Automobiles were not in their thought pattern so to speak.  Part of that is because I think you had to be 18 before you got a driver’s license and the other problem was that of money.  They were very expensive, vehicles were very, very expensive and so was the price of fuel at that point in time. 

Lack:    Did you find examples to replace automobiles?

Anderson:    Of course one thing they were always telling me was that we, we being in England, have real beer as opposed to the beers that we consume here in the US.  I had one class which was what they called combination classes.  It seemed as though the different programs would fill up.  When they were full, then the people had to do something else.  So what they had to do was like make a combination.  Maybe they would be in English and for example a marketing major combination.  Something over in Arts and Sciences which then combined with one of the majors in business.

Lack:    Which is a good idea.

Anderson:    Well I had the privilege of teaching one of those classes.  I had about 122-123 kids in there.  I would ask a question and about 20-21 would put their hands up every time.  They were terrific.  I wanted to bring them here.  Another interesting thing was that many of these people had been to the U.S. or had connections in the United States.  Of course I didn't think too much of it, but every now and then a student would say I’ve been to the U.S. and that’s why I can understand you.

Lack:    Your accent?

Anderson:    Yes, yes. 

Lack:    Interesting.  So a lot of them were quite cosmopolitan.  Even if they didn't have money necessarily, they had an interest in the world.

Anderson:    They’re more interested.  There was at least one newspaper that was international.  It was all printed in English.  There were others too.  The regular newspapers had big sections on international and this is because they’re right there.  Gosh, they go for a weekend to Italy or Sicily or Cypress, the Azores.

Lack:    Did you travel while you there?  Did you have the time to travel?

Anderson:    Not much, part of it is because of where the dollar was.  It was kind of problem.  We did manage to go to Ireland.  We flew to Cypress.  We got a special rate.  We drove around with the car.  We got involved with the infamous English roundabout.

Lack:    The traffic circles?  That’s what Americans call them I suppose, traffic circles.

Anderson:    But after a while, you find out that they’re very good at moving cars.  I mean you get on there, you’ve got to move.  So it was really a tremendous experience.  I’d recommend it for everybody.  Thank goodness we went to a place where they spoke English which was a big help.  It is a foreign country.

Lack:    You stayed in the home of this professor who came to Wilmington?

Anderson:    Yes and we were also very fortunate because his brother and sister-in-law were very helpful.

Lack:    With settling in and you had access to their car and everything.  How did they like it in Wilmington?

Anderson:    Oh, they liked it.  One of the big things is the space.  Space, it’s a big difference and then the prices.  They liked the prices.

Lack:    Just imagine if they came today.  I think in some ways prices have dropped.  Some of your consumer items are cheaper  now.

Anderson:    Welli don’t know. I think it’s about where it was when we were there in terms of the exchange.  Anyhow things fluctuate.  Everyone over there was really very kind, very considerate of us.

Lack:    When were you over there?  The early 90’s perhaps?

Anderson:    Yes, I think it was ’92.  It was a wonderful experience.

Lack:    Did anyone do anything similar after you, anyone from your department or the Cameron School of Business?

Anderson:    Dr. Adams went on an exchange program.

Lack:    Sheila Adams?

Anderson:    Sheila Adams.

Lack:    I have to talk to her still.

Anderson:    She went over there and I don’t know what’s happened.  They’ve got interchangeable programs or exchange programs with several other universities.  I really do think it’s a good experience and we had students come from there.  They came over here and they were operating on a different program than we operate here.  One of their periods that they take off is really a period to work.  You’re supposed to be working.  So some of them came over here and we put them in classes and had them study (laughter).

Lack:    When you came to the Cameron School of Business, I guess Dr. Kaylor was the dean. 

Anderson:    Yeah, Dr. Kaylor was the dean.  It was in l983.  They spent less than $20 on us for recruiting.  That consisted of a meal for myself and one for my wife at the Bridge Tender and that was it (laughter).

Lack:    I kind of lost track.  Were you at ECU?

Anderson:    ECU, right.

Lack:    So you were not far away.  The transportation costs were negligible.

Anderson:    But if it’s in state, there can’t be any compensation.

Lack:    Oh really, for recruiting. 

Anderson:    Yes, Dr. Kaylor was the dean, Dr. Harper was the chairman.

Lack:    Chairman of Management and Marketing.

Anderson:    Right, management and marketing and he also had business law.  So he had the lawyers in there as well. 

Lack:    All in one department.

Anderson:    Yes, he had a big department.  He also had a group which are now called PDS, Production Decision Sciences.  So that group was in there.  They were in the management area.  Dr. Harper had a lot of people to take care of.  So I came in 1983 and as I said, I was interested in international and since there’s a port here, that was the thing.  I felt I was going to see how the marketing was and get into the marketing.

So they were in a transition.  Several of the people they had before had left.  They needed some individuals.  I came on and a fellow by the name of Jack Turner, Dr. Turner, was here on a special grant.  He had been a former dean and was sort of like going into a retirement type, at least from being a dean, he had been a dean at the University of West Virginia, the business school.  So he was here.

There was a hold over from the previous group, a fellow by the name of Dr. James Buzman.  He was only here for a semester.  Then the spring semester, I can’t recall the name but it was an MBA from Georgia was hired on a temporary basis to fill in.  Then we got into the first year, you’re trying to figure out who’s here and what’s going on in regard to the program.  We also got involved in recruiting thank goodness.

We were very, very fortunate to hire a couple by the name of Honeycutt.  So we hired Earl and Laura Honeycutt.  Both of them had Master’s degrees and Earl was finishing up his Ph.D. at the University of Georgia.  So they came on board for the next year.  One of the things that had occurred was that things were kind of low or kind of down.  They needed some help, alright, and they needed to get their program moving in the right direction. 

When I say a program moving, program in my opinion always consists, the first and foremost thing of the program is the students.  You have the students and then you have faculty and then we have textbooks and courses.  So what we want to have are courses which are appropriate and textbooks that are appropriate.  We want to get students and student involvement.

One of the things that you need at a university of shall we say of size is you have to be able to get the students to interact with themselves, not just in the classroom, but outside of the classroom.  So I’ve always been a strong, shall we say, proponent of student organizations, professional organizations.  For example, in the area of business you have the American Marketing Association, Management Association, Finance Association, Accounting Association, etc. 

Then there used to be and I guess there still are what was known as fraternities, business professional fraternities.  I think Delta Sigma Pi and something else.  Alright, in terms of the American Marketing Association, there were like five members so it means we had to rebuild that.

Lack:    You were the faculty advisor?

Anderson:    Yes, I became the faculty advisor.

Lack:    Did other people build up the other student organizations relating to business like finance?

Anderson:    Yes they were going and management was going, but marketing needed help.

Lack:    How did that go?

Anderson:    Well it was a struggle.  Anyway it worked, we worked it out.  We got a few more people each semester.  The role of the student organization is that it gets the students not only to interact, but also to get a feel for how to conduct something in a formal manner and to meet deadlines and to be somewhat responsible, carrying out various sorts of things such as the financial matters, for example, going on field trips, getting speakers.  This is always a big thing.

Okay, so now we want to get an interaction in terms of students.  With bringing Earl Honeycutt on board, he participated and participated in that.  He was also very interested in the curriculum and the courses that were to be offered.  One of the things in the teaching field is that we are to teach and we also are asked to do administrative things and we are also asked to publish.  So we get into the research and publication thing.  One of the things that happens there is that some individuals can do quite a bit of that, but it doesn’t get transferred over shall we say to the students.

The students are operating in an environment in which they need some sort of guidance, some sort of direction.  I’ve always felt that this is sort of a key item here is to find out why these students are with us and to explain to them what some of the possibilities are and where they can go with their degree and what they can do.  So this involves interacting with them, not just in the classroom, not just in the advising category, but on a extended…

Lack:    It sounds like you were very committed to your students and interested in their success inside the classroom and outside.

Anderson:    Yes and part of that came from where I went to school.  When I went through the University of Texas there were individuals there who were very concerned about the students.  They were very helpful, these individuals were very helpful to me. 

Lack:    Were they your teachers?

Anderson:    Yes.

Lack:    Is that what inspired you to be a college teacher do you think?

Anderson:    I don’t know whether they did.  I’ll give you an example.  One of my teachers, one of my professors was getting ready to leave the University of Texas.  I had something very important that I had to talk to him about.  So he said if I could come out to his place, he would be able to talk to me.  While we were talking, I had to help him get chickens out of the tree, okay. 

Lack:    Did he have a farm?

Anderson:    Yeah, he had a small farm, some acreage.  He was going off at the time to Michigan State and he was receiving an increase in salary.  But he was very concerned about me.  He wanted to talk to me.  There were other people who would talk and discuss things, faculty members.  I found that to be very, very nice.  I remember the first faculty meeting I went to at the dean’s house.

Here I was, this was the first time I had ever gone to a faculty meeting or an occasion.  My wife and I are sitting on a bench and we have our food and beverage and what have you.  A professor came over and sat with us and talked with us.  He was the associate dean.  He knew that I was brand new and he was interested in me and my wife.  Well that was the background that I came from.

I didn't really want to be a faculty member.  That was not a goal until I was offered the opportunity to teach a section as I’m working on my Ph.D.  After the first day I was in there, I was on such a high it was ridiculous.  It was unbelievable.  I was about three or four feet off the ground.

Lack:    Were you teaching a section at the University of Texas?

Anderson:    Yes.  Had no idea that this was what I was going to do.  That started it and that’s how it finished.  I mean I wasn’t that high off the ground.  I remember one of the faculty members who was there, another young guy who said, “Boy, teaching would be alright if it wouldn’t be for the students.  You have to go to class and teach them”.  And this older faculty member said, “God, that’s the only place I get to relax and enjoy myself is when I’m in the classroom” because he was on so many committees.  Those can get overbearing, it’s horrible.

Here I was, a situation where we’re dealing with a discipline which is extremely important especially in a high level economic society such as we have here in the U.S. meaning we’ve got a market.  To bear out what I’m saying, right now for example the consumers have been carrying the economy.

Lack:    I’ve read that in the newspaper.

Anderson:    It’s a little soft, but they’re still doing what, they’re still buying houses, a little slow on appliances right now, but we’ll see what happens.  So the market is the place.  It’s a strange place, it’s frustrating because you can’t always figure out which candy bar is going to be sold.  So when we look at that and we say to ourselves, by God, do you need another candy bar.  Do we really need a candy bar at all?  That’s not the point, some people like them, you see.

So the point I’m trying to get across to you see is are we going to continue to have other candy bars besides Hershey’s and maybe we should be more concerned about the food qualities that are in a particular can of something.  So my point is this if we don’t sell anything, we’re not going to be able to produce something.  We’re in an economic society that is really very, very highly developed and very much interrelated. 

Somehow or other people have to come up with things and ideas.  The fascinating thing also about it is a person can start in his lifetime, his or her, and make a fortune.  Even in something that’s tried like retailing, a shopkeeper for God’s sake.  They’ve been around for centuries and the man’s name was Walton, right.

Lack:    Sam Walton.

Anderson:    So he becomes one of the wealthiest men in the U.S. and then when he dies, his five children are in the top 25. It’s amazing, right? You can have the lady with the pink Cadillac, right, she sold cosmetics.

Lack:    Mary Kay?

Anderson:    Mary Kay, right. 

Lack:    And it’s all in the marketing, it’s in the idea.

Anderson:    Yeah, because what was she selling, stuff that other people were selling, right. 

Lack:    What makes the difference.

Anderson:    Sure, what makes hers different.  There’s a lady over in England who had what was called The Body Shop.  Her thing was – what was she selling?

Lack:    No animal testing.

Anderson:    See that, no animal testing.  What did that do for her?  It made her a millionaire.

Lack:    I bet students enjoyed your class.  You’re teaching now.

Anderson:    It’s life, see.  It all hangs together.  I mean Columbus just didn't take off, alright. He was looking for what, a shorter way to get there.

Lack:    I see you have some notes or some writings there.  Is there anything that you’d like to share that you’ve jotted down.

Anderson:    I have some things here in terms of our development.  I gave you a little bit about what I believe in in terms of students.  One of the wonderful things in the early days is that people were coming in to the program who had been to other schools, other programs.  So you could almost use an expression like second chance.  This is the second chance for these people. 

Lack:    They hadn’t finished the first time.

Anderson:    Right, wherever they were for whatever reason.  So they were coming back to school so to speak.  Many of them did very, very well and went on to get graduate degrees and law degrees and a couple of them, Ph.D. programs.  So we’re talking about individuals who somehow something happened.  One of the things in our programs is that we accept people, but all of them don’t get through, but we do give them an opportunity to come back.

So, what we had to do when we came here was to build up the marketing program and if you recall, I said something about courses in curriculum along with the students.  So what we found out was the marketing program needed to get a few more electives and so what happened there was our marketing electives, two of the three marketing electives, were taken from other departments, from other disciplines.  We could go into the whole concept of the cow____ too much.  We’ll just throw that out there.

So we discovered that and then changed it.  The marketing students then had the same privileges as the other disciplines. 

Lack:    They had more course selection in their actual department.

Anderson:    So we got straightened out internally, housekeeping students.  Then we started to, shall we say, treat students like human beings.  Pretty soon, we were graduating as many marketing majors as management majors.  We were doing it with fewer people.  Now the other disciplines were pretty far behind.  We’re talking about students who come into the business program and very seldom do these people come into the business program with the thought, when they start college, that I’m going to be this, this or that.

Lack:    You mean they’re not specialized into finance or marketing.  No, I wouldn’t think so.

Anderson:    Because you see this is something that they’re not really thinking about.  They’re thinking about being a manager and they know some people that know about accounting.  Of course as we hear more about the inner workings of business let’s say by the press, then they’ll have some different ideas.  Also another thing that happens is we have people who are in arts and sciences.   Then they find that those areas are not really what they want. 

So I think they get into like their second year and then they realize there are other areas to go into.  Maybe making a living becomes kind of important.  It gets to be a question of how many historians can we have.  Not that history is bad or anything, but there is the question of… and by the way I could say this for anything.  So we get people who started in other disciplines and then came in. 

Lack:    So at this point you would say marketing and management had the most majors?

Anderson:    Yes, they did.  For example, there are very few people who are going into economics, but finance probably has picked up and maybe the PDS has picked up.  Accounting is a field that has lots of opportunities, but it brings in a certain type of student.  

Lack:    Very numbers oriented, very detail oriented.

Anderson:    Right, so it’s a different situation.  These people are not individuals who get involved with people.

Lack:    But did everybody have to take some courses from each of the departments?

Anderson:    Oh yes, they have to take accounting, economics, PDS, statistics.

Lack:    Do they take advantage of your expertise?  Did you teach mostly upper level marketing courses?

Anderson:    Across the board.

Lack:   Everything, I guess they needed you.

Anderson:    Well in different areas.  Yes, I taught over the years, I taught Ph.D. courses and Master students and of course undergraduates. Yeah it was across the board. Basically part of what goes on in a university program and most people who are outside of universities, most people in the U.S. do not know what goes on in a university because they don’t have that much of an interaction.  When they go to the university, they know they have to go and get a degree of some sort.  Most of them are doing it unwillingly.  So it’s sort of like society makes me do this.  My folks make me do this.

They’re not concerned with how the university runs or operates.  They’re concerned with am I going to get out of here or how do I get out with the minimum of effort.  Universities and colleges have administrations and these are people who are there and they’re motivated by all the things that other people are motivated by.  They’re not always looking for the truth.  They’re looking for power and this is a dimension that I still have a lot of trouble with.  I thought everybody was all for one and one for all.  Wrong. 

Because you have individuals who want… power means, how do you measure power and that would be by the number of people you’re supervising.  So the more you have, the more areas you bring in, right?  That means then since I’m supervising so many people, more than this person, I should get paid more. 

Lack:    That is an interesting way to look at it.

Anderson:    It’s very interesting so it’s out there.  Now you also have the lease systems in terms of people.  I’ve always felt that I work for the people in the state.  I’ve had the privilege of working at public universities.  We were there for the people of the state.  Our opinions were just as good or worth just as much as the opinions of others.  It’s not that we wanted to exclude anyone else.  We just wanted to have our share of whatever was out there, in part the market forces to do things.

Lack:    Can you talk some about what Cameron School of Business was like?  Were you involved in Business Week?  Did you have a role in that?

Anderson:    Yeah, on occasion.  On occasion, I would get speakers.  The first time I got involved in it was sort of a oh gosh, I had people say they were going to come and then they didn't.  I was just totally, I was disturbed, how people could look at me and say yes, and then not show up.  But it got better.  That was a very neat experience.  I think it was very worthwhile for the students.

Lack:    And for any viewer or listener who doesn’t know what Business Week is, that’s when basically courses were cancelled in the Cameron School of Business for an entire week or a couple of days and at that time guest speakers from businesses in the community would come in and take over the class for 50 minutes.

Anderson:    People from the state or out of state depending on who they could get.

Lack:    I interviewed Lee Sherman.  He was talking to me about that.

Anderson:    Yeah, he was in charge of that.  That was a good program from the standpoint from where we were because our students, most of them are from here, but most of them were not involved in a very strong placement center.  See when I was at the University of Florida, they had a very strong placement center.  The University of Texas had a very strong placement center.  Companies came from all over the country to those two universities I just mentioned.

Those companies were very selective as to where they went.  So they were not coming to a place like UNC Wilmington because it would be physically impossible to go to all these places.  It had to be selective.  So we had to come up with something to convey to students that there were opportunities out there in different parts.  So this in part added to their understanding of professional activities.

Lack:    Make contacts, realize all the employers that are out there, all the opportunities that one could embark on.

Anderson:    Let me just say a few more words here in regard to people coming and people going.  I think probably I already mentioned Earl Honeycutt in terms of coming on.  That was really a key right there as far as I was concerned and as far as students were concerned.  Then we had some other people who came and went.  We were strapped for funds and we couldn’t find individuals of certain qualifications, but we needed some people.

We took chances on individuals, we had to.  And it didn't always work out that well.  These people weren’t that knowledgeable about certain situations.  So one of the things that happened, a key breakthrough came when we hired a fellow by the name of Vince Howell and a fellow by the name of David Bojamic and they came into marketing.

Lack:    David, how do you spell his last name? I probably have it on my…

Anderson:    B-o-j-a-m-i-c. When those two lads came, we also had a change then in terms of the chairmanship.  We had gone from Harper to Adams and now to a fellow by the name of Latham. 

So here comes Vince and here comes David.  Now they’ve added to Earl and myself.  So they could do different things and interact with different students.  Both of those were in marketing.  Okay, then we picked up James Hunt.

Lack:    He’s here.

Anderson:    He’s still here and Dr. Hoffman.  We hired Dr. Hoffman and James Hunt, they came in.  Dr. Bojamic left.  He didn't leave because he wanted to leave.  His wife was not happy in her department.  So they had to go to find a place for her.  By the way, James came here because his wife, Tammy, wasn’t too happy where she was.  I think a lot of those two people.  He was on…whew where he was at that school.   So he just cut that out for her.

Okay then we pick up Dr. Judy Siko.  So Judy comes on board.  The fascinating thing is that the marketing department now is in a situation whereby these individuals are all eligible to go elsewhere.  I want you to think about that.

Lack:    They’re highly recruitable.

Anderson:    Right, see so they came here, but they could have gone elsewhere.  Some were elsewhere; for example, James was.  Now what happens is that David goes elsewhere, Earl goes elsewhere, Judy goes elsewhere and Doug goes elsewhere, Doug Hoffman.  What does that mean?  That means your department has achieved a certain level in terms of the level of instruction, in terms of how knowledgeable these people are and also what their abilities are in the classroom because they all came through with pretty good ratings in the classroom.

So we go from a situation where we’re pretty much in the dumps, alright, to where we have a pretty good group.  The measure of the goodness of this group is that other universities wanted them.  Earl went to Old Dominion where he was department chair of not only management and marketing but also finance and he taught Ph.D. students.  Judy’s at Cornell and she’s in the graduate program and the note I got from her, she’s supervising 18 people and going here and there and all over the place.  Doug goes out to Colorado State which is one of the two major schools in Colorado.  David went up to a school in Massachusetts.

Lack:    This was all in the 1990’s.

Anderson:    In the ‘90’s right. 

Lack:    If you don’t mind, I’d like to hear about what happens as these people start to fade away.  I’m just gonna turn this off for a minute and take a break.